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112592-rolling-on-loot-you-dont-need
Content ---- ---- Endgame Support, weapon attachments, implants Anyone can roll on them. Even if an item has +100 tech and 30 grit, a spellslinger can and will roll need on it. The troll is too strong. I can understand an item with only +100 Brut +40 Grit rolled on by a Spellslinger, maybe they need to be hit capped? But not one with tech lol The voting system needs a few tweaks. | |} ---- ---- So your saying the game designers who deal with the loot system.... Have failed in their base human nature. Gotcha. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- And here lies the problem :'( sad day. I wonder how many times they are going to use "RNG" as an excuse. I think I'll start counting... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I've had people hulk out on me for waiting until everyone had needed/greeded, then needing on something I can offspec. I never do that for epics, in that case I ask the main specs in the party if they need it before I roll. Another common thing I've seen is people trying to reserve an item at the beginning of a run, or assuming that since they need it, anyone else that dares to roll is dirty scum. People are just too sensitive. It's extremely rare (in my experience) that someone that can't use something I need badly just straight up steals it. | |} ---- ---- ---- Hot fix for... what exactly? Might as well play a single player game if that was the case. Personal loot is dumb. | |} ---- It's actually a really smart system. Although I know you and I prefer loot to be able to be needed on by everyone (even pets randomly need roll), and when you equip the loot there's a 5% chance your character is deleted. But *sigh* times are a changin. Kids, entitlement, gov'ment edumacation ruined 'merica, grumblegrumble. | |} ---- ---- ---- What's dumb is a rolling system that puts players at each others' throats. | |} ---- ---- What's dumb is actually that human beings cant *cupcake*ing communicate for 5-10 seconds over an item. Simple example from my days in vanilla wow where anyone could roll on *cupcake*ing anything: Warrior tank: - "Oh nice dps sword, do you need it mr rogue? Or can i take it for my offspec?" Rogue: - "Yeah i need it if you dont mind." Warrior tank: - "Ok, never mind then, GZ! :) Lets move on!" Priest has chosen Greed. Hunter has chosen Greed. Mage has chosen Greed. Rogue has chosen Need. Warrior has chosen Geed. But sadly these days of mmorpgs where people actually play MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to interact with an MASSIVE AMOUNT OF PLAYERS while playing their game is over. And what we are left with is this: Warrior has chosen Need. Rogue has chosen Need. Priest has chosen Greed. Hunter has chosen Greed. Mage has chosen Greed. Warrior tank has won dps sword with a Need roll of 92. Rogue: - "Omg *cupcake*ing ninja i needed that." Warrior tank: - "Sorry i didnt know that, i rolled on it because i need for offspec." Now its all about sitting alone in your housing plot and click your group finder to run instances while using minimal communication and not give a second thought about what anyone else in the group thinks or wants. As for the people using the argument "Just group with 4 friends and do adventures / dungeons so you wont have to deal with ninjas". If i wanted to play a game with 4 friends and not have to interact with a single other player i would probably play some co-op game with my friends. I play, again, MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES to play in a world where i interact with a huge amount of players wether it be to trade, do instances, PvP or just sit and chat. | |} ---- That's nice. My days in vanilla WoW and indeed any gear-focused MMO you can name involved people whining about gear being 'stolen' from them just like today. Personalized loot is the better option. | |} ---- ---- ---- It wouldn't happen if Carbine hadn't instituted an outdated rolling system that encourages bad player behavior. | |} ---- and there you go ^^...with salvage, all loot is useful loot. now, if you take a moment to agree on loot rules, that's different, but never assume "common knowledge" is comment or courtesy is the rule. | |} ---- ---- What makes you so special that you're more deserving of the loot than them? At the end of day you're both pulling the same slot machine lever. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- No it isn't. You're supposed to be social, and you should be amicable long before the first piece of loot even drops. THIS is another problem with auto-matching group finders. Loot should never be a problem when playing the game properly, with an organized team of people you know. Personal loot is dumb and unnecessary, and only pushes the game to be less social than it already is. | |} ---- Social etiquette. It's what separates humans from simply being animals. If a DPS rolled on tanks stats when a tank needs those stats (assuming not a med DPS) it's a dick move. The tank has to handle a lot more pressure for the entire adventure/dungeon and more responsibility. It's just basic courtesy. If you are both DPSes and he was whining about it, I can see your point. That's fair game. But not with the first example. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I almost can't stand replying anymore. Why don't you fix the pug problem once and for all and find a good guild? Why do you insist on facing the same problem of looking for a new group to do something every night? Why not solve it permanently? THen there is no need for an automated group finder which IS a problem more than a solution. | |} ---- Because standing in Thayd doing nothing, waiting for members, regardless of how good your guild is. We're in Datascape, but that doesn't mean that I don't have trouble finding a tank in off-raid hours. Apparently you're not reading posts just as much as you assume I'm not. | |} ---- Then guess what? You do the content right now. If you don't have the proper team - DON'T DO IT. Or if you insist on trying to do group content with randoms, then yes - you deserve to pay whatever price that brings. | |} ---- Agreed, so why take out GF? | |} ---- ---- When competition for resources become involved, social etiquette goes out the window. And this was a thing in loot-focused MMOs long before LFG too. I've personally seen the squabbling both in later-days Everquest, Final Fantasy XI, and early-days World of Warcraft. So thus personalized loot, removing the source of conflict altogether. Oh and whining? The only thing I've run dungeons for is to complete quests. When I need gear upgrades I craft 'em or quest for 'em. I'm not whining about anything, only explaining the best solution. | |} ---- ---- ---- It is an ethics issue; but on mmo's it has less to do with peoples actual ethics than their neglect of them when in an anonymous environment. | |} ---- Fair enough. I do however think it speaks to someone's personal integrity that they decide to shirk all ethics just because they can get away with it. It's how way too many people act online that makes me think that an inordinate amount of people anymore are lawful evil. In other words they act decent if there is a threat of punishment and as soon as there isn't they will do whatever they want regardless of how messed up it is. | |} ---- it most certainly does. Though a note: Lawful evil would be obligated to act evil in all situations. Acting good when punishment is probable but acting evil when anonymous would be more neutral evil or chaotic evil. | |} ---- People have been crying about the decline of virtues and such since the Classical era. This behaviour is nothing new. Like it or not, both utilitarianism your "need" rollers who value personal success over helping others and humanism reverse are valid philosophies. I doubt anyone here will be able to convert one side to another, and it's certainly not within Carbine's power to do so either. | |} ---- Valid points, though Utilitarianism wouldn't be the philosophy that governs arbitrary need rollers; as a utilitarian philosophy would seek the most net benefit from their actions, and would want drops to go to those who could get the best use out of them. Arbitrary need rollers would fall into a branch of ethical egoism, rather than utilitarianism. EDIT: class Edited September 7, 2014 by Nazryn | |} ---- ---- Fun? In an MMO? What do you take us for? This isn't Mario Party Online! Or Jurassic Park Online. Here's my T-Rex gunslinger... | |} ---- I need to need to change my pants. | |} ---- It doesn't make friends angry. Only random people you don't know and have no respect for each other - the wrong way to play these games, it turns out. Totally avoidable - don't group with randoms. | |} ---- ----